BBC RADIO LEEDS INTERVIEW WITH GILBERT!

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Radio Leeds Program started after 2:00PM GMT on April 12^th , 2002  The Program starts with the playing of Two’s Company (Three is allowed)

 

Interview Summary:  Gilbert talks about: touring then and now, his Irlish roots; song writing; the Web; Jersey; live performances; labels; the old image; The Beatle influence; His name; other people’s songs; his writing/recording methods; the court case; Gordon Mills; his popularity; his ambition yesterday and today;  his Naiveté and reclusive ness.

 

DW     And he’s here! Gilbert….hi!

GOS    Hi Dave.

DW     How are you?

GOS    Alright,  thank you.

DW     Back from Newcastle last night where you were playing.

GOS    Yes, first gig, first show.

DW     How did it go?

GOS    It was a good show.

DW     Yeah, do you do a lot of the new stuff or a lot of the old stuff?

GOS    Well, it‘s a two and a quarter hour to two and an half hour show. So there’s amply opportunity to do plenty old material, plenty of album tracks and a bunch of new songs.

DW     Well, we’ll get the plug in because you are coming to Leeds. It’s the 18^th of April -- City Varities.

GOS    Looking forward to it.

DW     Excellent. Is this a comeback tour? People would be anxious to bill it as a comeback tour wouldn’t they? Do you see it that way?

GOS    I’ve toured every 18 months because I’ve released an album every 18 months. In other words, you can’t be releasing albums and just sitting at home, doing nothing.  You got to get out there and promote it. Because I make albums, write songs, make albums and release them, I get off my bum and get out and work.  So every 18 months I’ve toured. All be it, not large tours cause it’s not that easy to get the amount of dates you want.  For example, we started this tour last year in Europe and Ireland and we were meant to finish it last year in the UK but we couldn’t get the dates.  So that’s why, in effect, this is a continuation of that we could only get the dates March and April time.

DW     Right. And that last song we just heard, "Two Company (Three is Allowed)" was released March?  How is it going so far?

GOS    Yeah, it comes out in about four weeks time.  Yeah it’s good for us with singles. We don’t expect to blast the Top Ten but what we look for is exposure for a track that’s from an album that is currently released.  It gives people an idea of what you’re up to.  The comeback argument is more in use if all you are promoting is a greatest hits package. But if you are on the road constantly or all be it for short tours, at least you’re out there doing whatever you are functioning as.

 

DW     The Irish background gives it away. Wexford wasn’t it?

GOS    I was born -- Waterford where the crystal comes from.

DW     55 years, now is it?

GOS    Yes, I am 55. But you know, I left Ireland when I was seven.  My home in effect is Swindon, which is where I was raised.

DW     Right.

GOS    So I look upon myself as an English artist but as an Irish person. It’s an interesting predicament to be in because in many ways a lot of people in England regard me as an Irish artist where in Ireland they regard me as English artist. That’s why I live in Jersey!

DW     But do you still get the same buzz at 55 years of age? Do you still get the same Rock ‘n’ Roll buzz?

GOS    Yeah….What’s nice about a track like "Two Company"…it’s indicative of a

good….I like the attitude of it.  It’s not necessarily indicative of a 55 year-old person who perhaps should be gardening in retirement and stuff.  I still have this kind of ballsy attitude towards music. I still love  the idea of writing  songs.  I still have this great enthusiasm for music.

I like most of what’s going on today whether it’s Nickelback or J.Lo or whatever. I get a real buzz out of it. So as long as I have that, I think age has very little do with that.

 

DW     Yeah…You still have a great following as well.  I was looking at one or two of your websites yesterday and today and there’s a lot of loyalty isn’t there?

 

GOS    Uumm…well, this Web thing bugs me.  There’s too much information. I’m not

a lover of the Internet.  I don’t make use of it, my brother does.  But they are important things to have. They are for people who want information and want availability of whatever it is whether it be you or I or whatever.  That’s what it’s for.  It has a useful purpose, although I think it’s too intrusive.

DW     You are living in Jersey now, aren’t you? Do you enjoy that?

GOS    Yeah…it’s nice.

DW     What’s the appeal of Jersey?

GOS    Well, originally it was because I moved there after court problems and stuff.  And I had two young daughters.  So Jersey is a good place to raise kids.  That and the financial aspect and it’s a nice rural environment.  Plus, it’s close to England without being in England.  It’s only a half an hour by plane.

 

DW     So is it a real wrench then when you sort of have to pick yourself up every 18 months and start touring the country when you got this sort of idyllic?

GOS    No, you mustn’t view it that way. You can’t be writing songs and making records and not getting out there to promote it. It’s hypocritical to be doing that and not making the effort.  The key is when you do go out on the road, whoever is there, there’s something very special about live performances.  As opposed to making records because you have one-to-one contact with people and the opportunity to play songs in a different way.  When we do certain songs, we do a reggae version of an old song. So you are allowed to play around with the original recording in a kind of way that suits a live environment or be it 30 years on.

DW     Right. Can you stay with us. I’d love to keep on chatting with you.

GOS    Sure.

 

          (RADIO LEEDS PROGRAM BREAKS FOR NEWS)

 

DW     So you think you are clever. So if you really are will you kindly tell me how big is a star? Well none much bigger than the man we got with us today " Gilbert O’Sullivan

DW     Seventies Pop icon, do you enjoy that kind of terminology?

GOS    Oh no..Dave..I hate It. Working Artist!

DW     Working artist? Cause you didn’t like singer-song writer because that was another name that was given to you.

GOS    That’s why I called the album before this one, Singer Sowing Machine.

DW     Right.

GOS    When people would say are you a singer-song writer. I’d say , no I am a singer sowing machine.

DW     Very good.

GOS    The label thing is ok. I have no problem with it. Categorization is a dangerous thing and in music it’s very easy to do that. To be called 70’s, 80’s or 90’s. We’re very fond of those kind of tags. 

DW     The image is gone now—The old Charlie Chaplin…..

GOS    No Dave…as you can see I’m wearing cap and boots. I mean come on this is like thirty years ago.

DW     Where did that image come from? Why did you go with that image?

GOS    Because I wanted to be different.  The benchmark for me were The Beatles.

Not just the writing. Everybody acknowledges The Beatles as great writers and performers and stuff. But people forget when they first came out, they looked totally different.  Nobody looked like them and that had a real effect on me. Before them you had The Shadows, which made you want to be in a band. You wanted to be like Hank and Bruce and play. But the Beatles, they looked so different. So you wanted to be in a band, look different, write songs.  So that always stayed with me.  So by the mid sixties, when I was determined to make a career in music, it was very difficult with long hair to stay "  long hair here to stay, to look different and good. So by cutting your hair really short in those days you looked really odd. So I was quite determined to do it because it meant you stuck out. The Charlie Chaplin thing was I used to hire a Charlie Chaplin jacket.  I liked Buster Keaton. I used to go watch all the old movies and stuff. It was kind of all worked out by me. To call myself Gilbert and go to CBS " the record company " who first signed me and say Here  I am.  It’s a dream for you. I look so different.  But they kind of said, It’s too odd. Grown your hair, wear a denim shirt and we’re sure you will be more successful. I wouldn’t have any of it.

DW     Do you think that if you had taken their advice?

GOS    There’s no question. But you are the kind of person you are. It’s a bit like people saying to me, you know you record your own songs. If for example you were given a song that was guaranteed to be Number one, written by someone else, would you want to do it. My answer would be no.  At the end of the day, it’s success but it’s not the kind of success you can live with.  I can live with failure on something that I’ve written rather than success on something that I’ve hadn’t done.  And a bit like the image thing. If I’d compromised, looked they what people said I should look just to suit them, I would have found that very difficult particularly now, looking back.  I would have regretted doing that and I have no regrets doing something, which was different and original, which may not have taken the world by storm. But at least it was something I wanted to do and was able to do it.

 

DW     Right. There’s another chestnut I’m sure you are sick about—talking about this, but the name " Gilbert O’Sullivan. You call yourself Gilbert and that sort of stuck with the O’Sullivan bit.  Was that any kind of a nod and wink at Gilbert & Sullivan?

GOS    Only because my name is O’Sullivan.

DW     That’s it isn’t it?

GOS    Originally I was going to call myself Gilbert and then you would see O’Sullivan as the writer and you would make the link.  But when I worked with Gordon Mills, he said call yourself Gilbert O’Sullivan. So that’s why we put the two together.

DW     Right. Smashing. Do you enjoy the name?

GOS    Well, my name is still O’Sullivan why shouldn’t I be proud of my original name?  The Gilbert thing was just Gilbert, it was like Just William…Just Gilbert. So it’s arguable that I might have preferred to stick with Just Gilbert as opposed to Gilbert O’Sullivan. But I went along with it the Gilbert O’Sullivan because as I say I don’t have a problem with it.

DW     Raymond was the original name wasn’t it?

GOS    Yeah…still is!

DW     One of the greatest songwriters of all time, Raymond Davis was from that era as well.

GOS    Raymond Davis is Great.

DW     Any regrets, anything that over the years, you thought…uum shouldn’t have done that. Or have you been reasonably please with every decision you made?

GOS    Career-wise, no regrets because I’ve never compromised.  Musically, if we talk in terms of music, I’ve never done anything that I’d didn’t want to do. I’ve never been forced into doing something.  There are no bordering decisions around the work that I do.  You can trace that from the very first record, which was a success.  If you go from "Nothing Rhymed" right?  The next record’s got to be a ballad;  "Nothing Rhymed" is a ballad. The guy writes ballads. Obviously, there will be another but no! The way I worked and still work is "what do you have now? "Nothing Rhymed" is a big hit " we did another single, so what have you got? What I had was a track called "Underneath The Blanket Go", which is just totally different. It’s a rock ‘n ’Roll thing. So Gordon Mills was very good in this area. Cause he said if that’s what you got " let’s do it.  Rather than him saying…ooh you know we should find something that’s similar to "Nothing Rhymed."  So I’ve always taken the route. Of course, you suffer for it because "Underneath The Blanket Go" wasn’t a big hit. It was a sort of Top 30 hit " just about.

          So everybody thought my career was over.

DW     Yeah.

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GOS    I never ever worried about that and I still don’t.  I love the idea of just writing a song and at the time that you need a record- well what have you got?  This is what I got, take it or leave it. The great thing about records is that no matter how successful you are, you never really know what might be a hit. So you can always take risks and I would hate the idea of being pushed into an area were you should to this kind of thing to appeal to a certain kind of audience because I think that’s an extremely dangerous thing for an artist to do. Just do what you do and if people like it " great, if they don’t " tough.

DW     You had a big court case, didn’t you? Which sort of kept you out of the public scene for a few years.

GOS    Yeah..I regret that! I regret the hurt that it particularly caused to Gordon Mills’ family because I was very close to them.  You don’t want to hurt people like that, for something that was so public. But I temper that with the fact that it need not of happened. It was not my fault that it went to court. It was their fault.  

DW     And this was simply a case of you wanted to go in one direction, they wanted to take you in another direction?

GOS    Well no. The breakup with Gordon Mills was that. But the court case was about a share of my publishing. Not being greedy, just asking for a small part of something I’d written, which had been promised to me. So when the relationship broke down, he reneged on the agreement. So naturally I fought back.

DW     Had that not happen, because it was a few years, wasn’t it? Had that not happened, how different would your career had been?

GOS    In what sense?

DW     Because you were very popular at the time weren’t you?

GOS    Uumm.

DW     Would you have kept on the same level of public eye popularity?

GOS    Well, I think the court case was a turning point in many ways. You could argue then that my career was, in effect, over because we had just had a hit with "What In A Kiss" and stuff. The court case ended in ’84 with the publicity around it, I was a bit of an auger in the business because I had taken on the business and won. So people don’t like that. So you become the kind of person you keep away from.  The business sticks together. Even if somebody is doing something that’s not particularly right. They stick together. Artists have very few people that will stick with them.  Most people turned against me. Had I lost, I would have had more friends in the business.  If I had lost the court case, I would have gone on to better things. So winning it was actually a strange scenario because it meant that I lost out because doors closed for me.  You become a knoll, the kind of person that took the business on and beat them. And therefore we don’t like that. But I’m happy to deal with that. I don’t regret the court case. I just regret the hurt it caused his family. I would definitely do it again under the same circumstances.

DW     Would you want that level of popularity that you had in the ‘70s? Would you want to have that back again?

GOS    Well, I never want to be a global star.  I didn’t want to take the world on.  I didn’t want to be a hit in America. I didn’t want to be a hit in Europe.  I just wanted to be a hit in England.  That’s where I lived. That’s where I worked, where I made the records.  So to get a hit in England was my ambition with a song written by me.  Now I’ve maintained the ambition ‘til this day. All the success that I had world-wide, Australia, New Zealand, America, I mean I didn’t go to Australia. I went there for the first time last year. So I had all the success in the ’70’s but I didn’t travel the world because I wanted to stay home and write and again Gordon Mills was good in this area because he was successful manager so he didn’t need to push me into these places where perhaps he would make a lot of money. So the thing for me was that my ambition was always just to write what I though was a good song and I hoped that it would be a success and nothing in 35 years has changed.

DW     We are going to speak to one of your fans all the way from New York in just a second.

 

DW    Here's Joe DiMuro who's in Manhattan. Hello Joe?

JDM    Hi! How are you?

DW     I'm very well thanks. How are you?

JDM    I'm doing OK.

DW     OK, and you're a big fan of Gilbert O'Sullivan?

JDM    I've been a fan for 29 years.

DW     So what was the first hook, what was the first link to him, do you think?
JDM    The first link?

DW     Yes.

JDM    Well, if you put some writers from Tin Pan Alley and Burt Bacharach

and Paul McCartney all together you'll come up with a Gilbert O'Sullivan.

DW     Can you remember that first moment when you first heard a Gilbert O’Sullivan song?

JDM    Yes, it was "Alone Again (Naturally)".
DW     Yeah, 'cause that was a big hit, that was your first hit in the States?
JDM    That was the first hit in America.
DW     Yes, six weeks.
JDM    And I was like this song is beautiful, and went out and bought the album.
DW     Right, fantastic, and he's not lost his appeal at all over the years,

you're still as big a fan now as you were then?

JDM    Well, after, after CBS and the court case he kind of disappeared from

America and I had no idea what happened to him. But thanks to the

Internet  (and I know Gilbert's not a fan of the Internet) but thanks to the Internet we found him again.

DW     Yeah, he's been telling us that he doesn't like the Internet at all.

JDM    Well that's OK, and we found him again, and actually when I built my

website dedicated to him, because I felt this man needs some help 

here, he's a great songwriter, and that's what I've done, and I started out in 1997.
DW     You say he's not been in America for a while, have you been across over here to see him at all?
JDM    I have not, I've not had the opportunity, the last time I saw Gilbert

was in 199… sorry, 1973 in Lincoln Center, it was a long time.

DW     Right, well you'll have to get your money saved and come over here.
JDM    Yes.
DW     But not many people are flying over the Atlantic these days, probably you'll get a seat.
JDM    Well, I'm still trying to get him to come back here.
DW     Right.
JDM    Next year is thirty years that he's been here, so hopefully he'll show up.

DW     Let him do all the hard work. What is the quintessential Gilbert O’Sullivan

          song from your point of view?
JDM    "Out of the Question". (click on songtitle for lyrics)

DW     Right.
JDM    It's a great song.
DW     Right.
JDM    It's my favorite Gilbert song.
DW     Smashing. Well thanks very much for joining us, Joe.
JDM    OK.
DW     All the way from Manhattan. in New York City.
JDM    Great. Is Gilbert there?
DW     He is, yes.
GOS    I'm listening to you. I mean, first of all I have to say, your site,

I appreciate everything you do on your site and I know it's really

good, and I appreciate your support, and I'm with you all the way,

but I just keep in the background, I know what's going on but I don't get directly involved.
JDM    Well, between Kevin and Terry they keep me posted.
GOS    OK, we're looking at doing some dates in the States…
JDM    Excellent!
GOS    We're talking about, so hopefully in the next 18 months or so we'll

get to America and hopefully we'll be able to do some concerts there.
JDM    Well I'll be there. Did you like the purple daisies?
GOS    (laughs) Yes I did!
DW     What were the purple daisies?
GOS    He sent me a big bouquet of flowers arrived at the dressing room last night.

DW     Right.
JDM    Well he has a song, er, I had, er, there was, I can't remember the

lyrics right now, but I had, er, "I used to have a daisy, A purple one called Maisie".

GOS    Yeah, that's right, you see.
JDM    From "Back to Front". So I thought that night, I rung up the florist

in Newcastle and I said "Get me those purple daisies!" And they did a great job, I hope.
DW     There you go, that's loyalty. Well thanks very much indeed for joining us today Joe.
JDM    Thank You!
DW     Have a good rest of the day.
GOS    Nice talking to you Joe!
JDM     Likewise!
DW     That's Joe DiMuro who's run a website since 1997.

 

DW     Well, you don’t like the Internet but you must marvel at that kind of fanbase? Doesn’t that touch you?

GOS    No, it’s frightening. I mean I think this guy is really good.  When you do a tour, they meet up, they are there. They get together through the Internet.  I don’t like that. I don’t like mobile phones. I am a reclusive and it’s difficult to be reclusive when you are surrounded by so much information.  But I think there is too much press and too much information, too much technology. But I like the technology in the recording studio.  But I just find it kind of frightening because they know everything sometimes before you know it. But when they talk about music and he thinks his favorite song is "Out Of The Question", I like thins like that. I mean something like that interests me.

DW     What’s your favorite film? We had a woman on earlier who seen E.T. 773 times!

GOS    My particular favorite films are from the late 1940’s, early 1950’s. Sometimes they show them on Channel 4 around Noon and I record them and watch them in the evening. I just like looking at England, London in that time.  You see the trucks and cars and very few vehicles.  There is something nice about that because when I was growing up, I was around 7-8-9.  I like that where now it’s all motorways.

DW     It was a very naïve world wasn’t in a ways?

GOS    And nice. Naiveté is a nice virtue.  There are areas of naiveté that area quite dangerous and lots of areas, which are good. I’m quite naïve and I’m blessed with my naiveté. It was my naiveté, which allowed me to do certain things. Maybe even take on MAM because had I realized what I was getting myself in for, maybe I would have not done it. Also my naiveté towards the music business is not based in what goes on within it. It’s based on this naïve attitude of writing a song, making a record, releasing it, the three R’s and believing that it’s possible to be successful even at my age.  So you can call that naive. That’s OK..it’s assort if healthy thing.

DW     Well, anyone who’s heard the latest stuff would think it’s anything but naïve. And the best of luck with that as well. I look forward to seeing you at City Varieties on the 18^th of April.  So it's back down to Swindon and then up again to Leeds. A busy ol’ life style, isn’t it? We’re going to do a bit of an old cliché now. We’re going to play perhaps one of the songs that perhaps a lot people remember from you, Gilbert O’Sullivan and this is "Alone Again." Thanks very much for joining us today.

GOS    Nice to be here today, Dave.

 

          INTERVIEW ENDS WITH "ALONE AGAIN (NATURALLY)"

A special thank you to my friend in London - David Birch for all his work behind the scene and to many friends (Jim, Jane, Linda, Maraclair to name a few) who sent notes of congratulations to me after the interview. It's was short but sweet!