Gilbert O'Sullivan........It's sparky, it's always sparky with Gilbert.
The following BBC Radio 2 Interview was broadcast on June 12th 2002. Also in the studio with Steve were his sidekicks Janey Lee Grace and Tim Lee. Click anywhere in photo above to listen to the interview!
SW Well, now look he's here, its' Gilbert O'Sullivan. If I give up the seat I've been saving to some elderly lady or man. How are you Ray? All right?
GOS Yes. Nice to see you.
SW Nice to see you again. I'm gonna call you Gilbert throughout 'cause that is obviously your professional name. So where have you been? What have you been doing? Where have you been all our lives? Come on tell me what you been up to friend?
GOS Working artist. I mean since the last time I met you.
SW Yeah?
GOS Another album.
SW Yeah?
GOS A tour. Just come back from Grimsby, Newcastle, Leeds...those kind of places. So, I'm just a working artist.
SW Do you ever stop and take some time out?
GOS In the profession I'm in and the age I'm at, if you get off the treadmill you're lost. You're pretty much lost while you are on it at my age but if you get off it, it's worse. So the important thing is to stay on the treadmill. Therefore, you can kind of keep focused that way.
SW So, when you first started out and wrote all those lovely delicious songs that we've been playing, what was your focus? Did you think well I'll just be a songwriter? Because it seemed to me that you didn't really want to perform and that you hid behind the image. Would that have been the truth or am I way off?
GOS Yeah, the original image allowed me to just sort of sit there at the piano and play the songs and stuff and the writing was the key to everything I did. So,I wanted to be a successful artist particularly in England because that's where I lived but the image kind of helped me because it's very difficult behind the piano unless you're Jerry Lee and put your foot on it and stuff. It's very difficult to do anything other than just sit there. It's very static. Elton jumped around a bit and stuff. So the kind of image meant that people could look at you a bit odd and think what the hell is going on here? So, it kind of helped me in the beginning. Once that became established then I'm a better performer now. I jump on the piano.
SW I know.
TL Where did that image come from initially, the cap and hairstyle?
GOS It's a Chaplin and Buster Keaton thing. I used to really love the Chaplin season. I used to hire a Chaplin jacket. I didn't really wear the short trousers. I did those only in pictures but I got sort of labeled with the short trousers, but it was fairly long trousers, Chaplin jacket, waistcoat, school tie.
SW And the press always depicted you, Gilbert as a very shy Irishman, which is really what you are. By the way, congratulations on Ireland.
GOS They're doing all right.
SW They are doing all right?
GOS Ireland and England are doing very well touch wood. (Soccer talk)
SW Yeah, so I always think of you as a very, very shy retiring type of fellow.
GOS I am not retiring! A lot of people say that they are basically shy and when they step on the stage it's a bit of a cliché. It's this thing about you're in front of thousands of people and you're quite sort of open and stuff. Yet if you meet any of the audience in the lift afterwards you tend to clam up. I'm a bit like that but I like performing. I really enjoy performing.
SW I know you do.
GOS I wouldn't do it if I didn't like it. I wouldn't do it. The reason I didn't start off doing it was the danger that a lot of artists have fallen into. In other words, the first album syndrome. Suddenly what happens is that you become hugely successful with your first record and everybody wants you all around the world. They want you to come over and do concerts and do TV and stuff and so you spend the next year doing all that and then suddenly you need your second album. Well if you spent that following year doing nothing but touring and promotion and stuff, where is the time to write that second album? So the important thing was for me and Gordon Mills was very good like this. God rest his soul. He allowed me just to write in that first year of success, which meant that I didn't go to Australia. I didn't go to Japan. I didn't go anywhere.
SW I like the quirkiness of your songs. You know my favorite song of yours ever and I've had conversations with Gilbert over the phone sometimes and I always say that "Mr. Moody's Garden." Now, you probably remember writing "Mr. Moody's Garden" but it always strikes me that some of the quirky songs you wrote are inspired by perhaps the England of the '30s and '40s and not necessarily Ireland of the last century.
GOS That's an interesting point because the problem for me as a artist today, is as you know, when you are initially successful and you live in England you're an English artist, the minute you are not successful you are where you're from.
[Studio Laughter]
SW That's true.
GOS Is that true? So, when I started off as a songwriter, I'm very English ‘cause that's where all my songwriting tradition comes from. But I was born in Ireland. Left Ireland when I was seven. So I've been brought up in Swindon. So, therefore, while I was successful I was an English artist. Now I'm not successful I'm an Irish artist. Where's in Ireland they see me as a failed English artist. So, I mean, I kind of sit between two stools. Doesn't bother me in the slightest but it is interesting as a lyricist. It's like Ray Davies. I see myself very much English in terms of what I write and I don't like the idea of being a sort of an American-type writer. I don't like the idea of writing about L.A. and stuff. I quite like writing about Fulham and you know.
SW And Swindon obviously, as a swindonian you'll agree that the influence of swindon has played a large part.
GOS It's a touchy subject because we get knocked a lot in Swindon and I defend Swindon.
SW You haven't done any songs about the excellent mini-roundabouts for example in Swindon.
[Studio Laughter]
JLG He is trying to find poignancy for it.
SW Or the G-W-R-H-Q.
GOS Don't knock Swindon!
[Studio Laughter]
SW Let me just take a break. Oh, look we must play. We got to play this new single of yours. Now on Top Of The Pops 2 we are playing the video and Harry Hill seems to be you. Could you just talk us through this?
GOS We asked Harry to do it because visually he is very interesting as apposed to a comedian who might be funny but needs to say things, and Harry was up for it and he is just a very funny person, and he becomes me basically.
[Studio Laughter]
SW He becomes the you of right after the short haired period.
GOS Well, we gave him an original sweater so he has got the whole thing now.
SW OK, we are going to take a break and play it and we'll be right back with Gilbert O'Sullivan.
Steve plays "Two's Company [Three Is Allowed]"
SW Now, we are back here with Gilbert O'Sullivan. Well, you know that's gonna be a hit. How are you gonna cope with that? You're not gonna hide away again are you?
GOS No, it's not gonna be but it's a good record. It's not going to be a hit. Being realistic you know, I am very realistic these days, but I really enjoy what I am doing. There's no downers for me. The idea of getting records out there and people playing it. I mean, I'm really happy with that. There is a real buzz about writing a song, making a record, getting it released and not knowing what's going to happen to it, but being happy with it.
SW Would you want it to be a hit?
GOS Of course, but I don't worry about that. If you worry about those things you'll never write another song. The way you write is you just get on with it.
SW I love the way you are...Just 'cause you must be living there on Jersey or wherever. You just must be loaded. You must have like so much money, yeah.
TL You're so rude.
SW No, no you are so passionate about what you do still.
GOS I love it. Life after Radio 2 it's called.
[Studio Laughter]
JLG No, life during Radio 2.
GOS With you but I think you know what I mean.
SW Yeah!
JLG But, do you like going out when you are doing your gigs now? Do you enjoy going out on your own or do you prefer to work with a band?
GOS The London gig we did, we did it at Ronnie Scott's and we did Moody's Garden and stuff and the nice thing about doing a tour is I do it two ways; with the band which is quite heavy or I do it lightly and I have two singers and a keyboard player. So we did it lightly ‘cause it's very intimate. It's a sort of one to one thing. So, we did things like Moody's Garden for the first time.
SW Yeah, brilliant.
GOS People like that song and what's nice is that's going back like 33 years or so.
SW Unbelievable isn't it really?
GOS But even though you are singing about things that were relevant then because of the lyrical thing ‘cause a lot of what I was singing about in that song refers to people like Don Partridge.
SW Yes.
GOS Remember Don at that time, so even with that in it, it still doesn't stop it being an interesting song to do.
SW Is an interesting song in your view one that we can remember 30 years later or one that is of it's time?
GOS I don't think it matters Steve but again you are into the analysis thing as a listener I would have a view on that when listening to other people's work but I think as a writer I just, I haven't a clue.
SW Really?
GOS Again, it's a kind of a dangerous area. Don't get into that.
SW See, none of your songs are forgettable, none of them.
GOS No that's not true.
SW Well, most of the songs, I mean if you say "Matrimony" or "We Will" or "Nothing Rhymed," virtually everybody listening of an age will be able to sing them.
GOS I like them, I'm proud of them but I don't think too much about it. I just get on with it and try to do the next one and stuff. That's the important thing for me but I'm very happy and I have to learn them on tour. I mean there was a couple songs that I wanted to do this time but I couldn't do them ‘cause I couldn't remember how the chords went.
SW No! What is wrong with your hands?
GOS You'll have to come and see me.
SW I will. What is wrong with your hands that you need to play the piano?
GOS It's difficult to get it. It holds about ten people. We'll work that out for you next time.
SW Why do you cut the piano with your hands like that?
TL It's an interesting style of playing.
GOS It's drums. It's drums, and when you work on your own, you create your own rhythm. So the left hand becomes the drum kit. I'm the Bruce Welsh of the piano.
SW But how do you play a chord?
GOS Well that's it, it's rhythm. I am not that great a piano player but I'm very good rhythmically. As I say like Bruce Welsh. It's not Hank but he is good rhythmically. So I am kind of the Bruce Welsh of the piano.
TL Did you have formal music training or could you just play the piano from any age?
GOS Like everybody I had a few weeks' lessons and stuff and didn't like it and stuff. But you just pick it up.
SW Would you or do you write songs in the style that you used to and what do you say when you get pressure from record companies and or people who say ‘Look we want another "Mr. Moody's Garden" or we want another "Clair." Do you just say well look that was then this is now, do you cut yourself off from that?
GOS Yeah, I'm not interested in that. I have never followed that line of thinking. In other words, if you sort of look at my career from the beginning, you'll see that the first hit was "Nothing Rhymed." The second one should have been a ballad which would be quite similar and would be just as big a hit. But it wasn't, it was a Rock and Roll thing called "Underneath The Blanket Go" which is what it did, it kind of disappeared. It barely made the Top 30.
SW Wasn't that a hit? I thought.
GOS It just made the Top 30 but all the doom merchants said that's it, it's all over now. Your career is over. You're a one hit wonder. You're finished. I wasn't concerned at all. Gordon said 'Well what have you got?' So whatever I've got applies today. If you were working with me, if the three of you, if we were in the studio together, were going to make an album, you would say 'Well what have you got Ray?'
SW Well, let's make an album, you know I was going to set up a keyboard for you today but I thought.
GOS How much time do you have?
SW No, but I thought that you would be in a mood anyway.
GOS (Laughs)
SW And then you'd say ‘Oh no I can't play that because that's like an organ that's not a piano but bring me a piano you'd say and then we wouldn't do it but next time will you come in, I'll put the piano in and you can play old songs and new songs. What do you think?
GOS Why not?
TL Have you ever been tempted by writing film music?
GOS No, although I am heading towards Radio 3, aren't I? So I should be going into classicals now right? I've gone from 1 to 2 and now I'm going to 3. See that door, it's not a door I like. So now I like songwriting. You know "Alone Again" is in this Stuart. What's this movie about a mouse?
SW Stuart Little 2 is it?
GOS 2 is out so they're using "Alone Again," Osmosis Jones used it and so they can use the old songs if they want to and stuff. We did a new song for a commercial in Japan and stuff. That's a way of utilizing songs in that kind of area.
SW Sure, Gilbert O'Sullivan's new single "Two's Company (Three Is Allowed)" is released on June 17th. You have to see the video. I think we have it on Top Of The Pops 2 either tonight. Is it tonight? I think we have it on Top Of The Pops 2 tonight. If it's not tonight it will be next week. So you must check it out it is very funny.
GOS Harry is good.
SW Harry is good and you are brilliant.
GOS I'm a bit-part player.
SW Well, you know the sweeping up, it's an important part.
GOS Well, I'm a good sweeper.
SW You're a very good sweeper.
TL Excellent sweeper. It came very naturally I thought.
GOS You don't know how good I am at home.
SW If you could have a look at the control room out there on the way out. Gilbert O'Sullivan's new single "Two's Company (Three Is Allowed)" released on June 17th. The album Irlish is out now also which I haven't even got a copy of yet so if you could get one of your operatives to let me have one I would be deeply grateful.
GOS Laughs
SW Gilbert O'Sullivan everybody. It's sparky, it's always sparky with Gilbert.
Steve plays "We Will"
SW And that's a lovely Gilbert song too, Gilbert O'Sullivan "We Will" and I've just been called by BBC2 Press. We did put it in the show tonight. If you are watching at 6.20 Top Of The Pops 2, you'll see classic pop performances tonight including Samantha Fox, Squeeze, Gloria Estefan and Gilbert O'Sullivan with Harry Hill.
As always...a million thanks David B.